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 Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65

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N871



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Date d'inscription : 27/03/2012

MessageSujet: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Jeu 1 Nov 2012 - 17:40

Bonjour,

est-ce qu'il y a quelqu'un sur le forum qui possède les 66 choral improvisationen op. 65 de Karg-Elert.
J'ai connaissance d'une version pour harmonium d'art, mais je ne sais pas ou le trouver.

merci!

Nils
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Christoph



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 10:20

Hi Nils,

The organ version is available at ISMLP - many great pieces that I like a lot. I looked in Sonja Gerlach's "Werkverzeichnis" of Karg-Elert's works - it doesn't mention a harmonium version of the pieces (for Karg-Elert fans this book is very interesting - it is still available at amazon).

If you are sure that there must be a harmonium version you can ask Johannes Michel - he is the president of the German Karg-Elert society and should know. He is a nice guy who will certainly answer an e-mail.
http://www.muho-mannheim.de/personal/Bios/michel_johannes.htm

You probably know his CDs that are quite nice.

Yours

Christoph
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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 11:18

Hello,

thank you for your reply,

I just discovered a page of the kunstharmonium version on imslp. Unfortunately it is one page only.
Maybe he transcribed only one piece to be found in a harmonium-collection book, that's also possible..

If I find it I will tell you.

thank again!
Best,
Nils
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Christoph



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 12:30

Which one do you mean? Can you send us the link?
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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 12:45

http://erato.uvt.nl/files/imglnks/usimg/1/11/IMSLP109928-PMLP223316-K-E-W7a-300dpi.pdf

yes :)it seems like I was mistaken...there is a reference to this work on the bottom of the page.
it seems to be featured on one of Matthias Michel's cds as a standalone piece...

EDIT: the piece in the link is part of the Meisterstudien for kunstharmonium.

thanks again!


Dernière édition par N871 le Jeu 11 Juil 2013 - 10:39, édité 1 fois
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dibfranciss



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 13:12

Hello Nils,

Christoph's suggestion is a very good one. You, as a fan of Karg-Elert's output, should have this publication.
Here's the link for the one:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUIDE-ORGAN-AND-HARMONIUM-WORKS-KARG-ELERT-/350342287801

Bonjour Nils,

La suggestion donné par Christoph est très bon. Vous, en tant que fan de la production Karg-Elert, devrait avoir cette publication.
Voici le lien pour le:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/GUIDE-ORGAN-AND-HARMONIUM-WORKS-KARG-ELERT-/350342287801


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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 13:27

Thanks Dib,

I indeed do enjoy his music a lot. I will upload some new recordings today Smile
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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 13:41

one other thing,

I recently purchased the works for piano and harmonium (again Karg-Elert),
but it seems like he also transcribed some of the pieces of his op. 26 for this duo.
Does anyone have this score? Smile
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Christoph



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Sam 3 Nov 2012 - 16:27

Hi Dib,

I meant this

http://www.amazon.de/Sigfrid-Karg-Elert-Werkverzeichnis-Sonja-Gerlach/dp/3921729297

However, it is in German
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Dim 4 Nov 2012 - 18:53

Hi Nils,

According to the Gerlach book the 4 pieces that he transcribed for duo and that you want are available in the Staatsbibliothek Berlin. You can order copies there. I recently did that for some other Karg-Elert pieces. It took 4 weeks and I had to pay for the copies but it worked. Their e-mail address is
musikabt@sbb.spk-berlin.de

Yours

Christoph
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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Lun 5 Nov 2012 - 14:00

Which works did you order if I may ask? Smile
I need to get myself that book...
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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mar 6 Nov 2012 - 13:03

Sonja Gerlach "Karg-Elert Werkverzeichnis"


Karg-Elert Opus 65

Ausgabe: Simon, Berlin, CS 3281-3286
1909 (I-V) 1910 (VI)
pages: 22, 29, 29, 34 34, 42

Neu Auflage: Breitkopf & Härtel, 1954

Einzelausgabe von:

1+2; 8, 12, 13, 16, 23, 28, 30, 31, 33, 34, 36, 38, 39, 41, 44, 45, 48, 48, 56, 58, 59, 62+63, 66
Simon, Berlin

Neuausgabe: R.L. Bedell of nrs. 1, 3, 5, 15, 17, 50
Edward B. Marks, New York, 1944


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Christoph



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mar 6 Nov 2012 - 18:51

I ordered the 6 Skizzen opus 10. The current edition doesn't have any harmonium registrations, and I hoped to find some in the original version. Indeed it has some harmonium registrations, but they are rather general and for suction harmonium (as far as I know Karg-Elert didn't know the art harmonium yet ).
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mar 6 Nov 2012 - 19:57

Christoph a écrit:
I ordered the 6 Skizzen opus 10. The current edition doesn't have any harmonium registrations, and I hoped to find some in the original version. Indeed it has some harmonium registrations, but they are rather general and for suction harmonium (as far as I know Karg-Elert didn't know the art harmonium yet ).


(o) in the Werkverzeichnis means: There is no original known, only a photocopy.

Futhermore: Opus 10 was ranked by Karg-Elert to be played on a simple instrument.
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 17:20

interesting.

Another question! Is there a registration table to be found of the op. 101 (30 portraits)?
The version on bnote doesn't include it.

please help, I will get the book soon enough Smile

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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 17:39

Dear Frans,

If you read the explanations of the abbreviations in the Gerlach "Werkverzeichnis" carefully you will learn that o, (o) and - are meant in regard to the Karg-Elert-Archiv in Odenthal (by the way, you can also order copies of pieces there).

BS and BP (also kBS and kBP) mean that the music is present in the Deutsche Staatsbibliothek Berlin (the two libraries have been united). They certainly have op. 10 and sent me a copy.

Some pieces, e.g. the duos op. 26b that Nils wanted, are not available in the K-E Archive but available in the Berlin Library, that's why I advised Nils to ask them for a copy.

Yours

Christoph
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 17:46

Hi Nils,

I recently got a copy of the portraits with registrations - I was very happy, since I looked for it for a very long time. Stupid that B-Note sells the version without registrations. But then I found out that the version from cathedral music also has the registrations. You can look at the "Beispielseite" here and order it:

http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/notenbeispiele/108528.jpg

http://www.bodensee-musikversand.de/3/108528/Katalog/Harmonium/Karg-Elert-Sigfrid+%281877-1933%29-Portraits+op.+101+Band+1%3A+Palestrina+bis+Berlioz+%28Harmonium%29.html

Christoph
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 17:57

GREAT NEWS!

thanks a lot!!
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 19:22

which brings up another question Smile

take a look at the last system of the beispielseite (Requiem aeternam)...

Karg-Elert asks for the 6 on the left side...I thought this was the contrabasse (=bourdon lowest octave only). But this doesn't seem to be the case in here,
he also writes "16'p" , What does it mean???

Did they make Mustels with a second 16' in the bass?

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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 20:00

Nils Van der Plancken a écrit:
interesting.

Another question! Is there a registration table to be found of the op. 101 (30 portraits)?
The version on bnote doesn't include it.

please help, I will get the book soon enough Smile


für Harmonium (aller Systeme) schrieb Sigfrig Karg-Elert. Das heisst: Geschmack und Lust und Liebe......

:-)

Frans
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Christoph



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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 20:47

Hi Nils,

the booklet of the Johannes Michel CD contains many interesting informations about those pieces. He writes that K-E made a few "Flüchtigkeitsfehler" (small mistakes) in the registrations - there seem to be sections where it is impossible to follow his registrations....

However, the 6 in the bass is for K-E a rank that is the continuation of the musette on the right side of the instrument. You can find this information in "Die Kunst des Registrierens" (Druckluftsystem) on page 253. Do you speak German? I could send you a scan of this crazy book.

Don't you have such a 6 on your dominator?

Christoph
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 21:03

Christoph,

you have been extremely helpful today!!!
thank you very much!


Yes, the Schiedmayer does have this 6 16' but I would never have thought that he meant this register because of 3 reasons:

1. it was never found on the Mustels (or so I think..). I know he composed his music on a Titz which are almost identical copies of Mustel instruments.

2. In the partita op. 37 he also asks for 6, but there he mentions "contrebasse". This passage clearly uses the lowest octave.

3. "16p" seems to refer to the 16 with a sourdine, not common on a kunstharmonium.. but yes the second 16' is indeed a lot softer (p) than the Bourdon..
Maybe he was familiar with the Schiedmayer harmoniums as well, would be logical. To my knowledge they are the only instruments using the nr 6 for a second
rank of 16' reeds.


I do understand German, a bit Smile if it doesn't cost you too much time it would be great to obtain a copy of this book! Smile Smile Smile

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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Mer 7 Nov 2012 - 22:11

Nils Van der Plancken a écrit:
I do understand German, a bit Smile if it doesn't cost you too much time it would be great to obtain a copy of this book! Smile Smile Smile



I don't know about the availabilty in digital form. I do have a very much 'crisp' printed copy at home.

If there is no digital available, maybe we should consider to start a new project.

Let me know.....


Frans

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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Jeu 8 Nov 2012 - 19:36

it seems like there is a 7 too in the bass Smile the voix humaine 4'

This register is available on some Mustels. Karg-elert though it was one of the most needed but unavailable registers.

This probably the reason why Paul Schmidt always refers to the cello 8' as register 4B in his books.
On the Schiedmayers this register is always numbered 7.


Dernière édition par Nils Van der Plancken le Jeu 8 Nov 2012 - 20:06, édité 1 fois
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Jeu 8 Nov 2012 - 19:56

update: The correct way to ask the bourdon lowest octave only is a 6 in a circle in a square.
The musette 16 in the bass should be asked with nr. 6 in a square
...
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MessageSujet: Re: Karg-Elert: 66 Choral improvisationen op. 65   Aujourd'hui à 6:00

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