Harmonium et Anches Libres
 
AccueilAccueil  CalendrierCalendrier  FAQFAQ  RechercherRechercher  MembresMembres  GroupesGroupes  S'enregistrerS'enregistrer  Connexion  

Partagez | 
 

 Tuning of the harmonium

Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Aller en bas 
AuteurMessage
N871



Masculin Nombre de messages : 239
Date d'inscription : 27/03/2012

MessageSujet: Tuning of the harmonium   Sam 24 Nov 2012 - 16:39

Hello everyone,

I have a question concerning the tuning of a harmonium (in fact a very basic question..):

Are all ranks (registers) tuned to the same diapason (f.e. A: 440 hz) or are sharper registers (3, 4, 5, 7, 8,..) tuned higher/lower than the soft registers (1, 2, 6,..)?

thank you,
Nils
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Jaakko Järvelä



Masculin Nombre de messages : 79
Age : 43
Localisation : Kaustinen, Finland
Date d'inscription : 04/09/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Tuning of the harmonium   Lun 26 Nov 2012 - 21:30

Hi Nils

There has been quiet around this topic so I'll try, please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

If I have understood correctly ranks 1,2,3,4 & 7 should have same pitch. Mustette 5 I'm not sure as my harmonium has only 4.5 ranks and it uses that stop also for Celeste and it is tuned +9 cents from 2 rank.
Celeste stops 5 Harpe Aeolienne, 6 Voix Celeste and 8 Äolsharfe 8' I have understood that in art harmoniums one rank is tuned lower and second is higher. For example -4.5 and +4.5 from 440Hz to get ~2Hz/2 beats per second undulating effect.

I tried to measure ranks 1 to 4 but reeds are so dirty and harmonium is overall out of tune that I cannot say 100% if there is offset in rank 4.

Then pressure affects also to tuning and should kept at same level when tuned or measured.

I don't have art harmonium where to verify this hopefully one day I would have also one here..... still on process Smile

I might be totally wrong so someone who knows this please correct me I'm also interested to know this. Also what pressure you're using when tuning would be interesting to know.

Or if someone has accurate tuner at home beside art harmonium maybe he or she could do some study.

But that I can say that tuning of Celestes is quite time consuming specially if you want to keep steady beats all across keyboard. And after tuning of harmonium you don't need to go to gym as you have lifted action up and down for several times.

Best Regards Jaakko

PS. If you have questions about tuning of reed organs those I can answer right away.
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Mathieu



Masculin Nombre de messages : 1021
Age : 38
Localisation : Toulouse & sud-Aveyron
Date d'inscription : 11/03/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Tuning of the harmonium   Mar 27 Nov 2012 - 16:52

Je n'ai jamais rien rencontré de tel sur un harmonium, excepté, comme le fait remarquer Jaakko, sur les rangs de Musette tenant aussi lieu de Céleste.
Avez-vous rencontré le cas, ou lu quelque chose à ce sujet quelque part ?
En tout cas, je suis bien certain uq'il n'y a pas de différence d'accord entre les jeux du Mustel N°2324, excepté quelques défauts locaux qui seront corrigés en temps et en heure !

Well so far I vener noticed anything like that on an harmonium, except the ones where the Musette is also used as a Céleste...
Have you seen this before ? Read it somewhere ?
I'm pretty sure there is no undulation between the stops of the Mustel N°2324, except some local tuning defects (that will be corrected in their time !).
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Jaakko Järvelä



Masculin Nombre de messages : 79
Age : 43
Localisation : Kaustinen, Finland
Date d'inscription : 04/09/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Tuning of the harmonium   Mar 27 Nov 2012 - 20:07

Hi Mathieu

Thanks for you reply. OK good now we got discussion ongoing. As I mentioned I don't have art harmonium so I might be wrong and most probably I am Smile.
Maybe I mislead a bit using word undulating.

Stop 5 at bass and 6 at treble have 2 sets of reeds in use at the same time, and those are dedicated just for this rank? Is this correct? Is the tuning of these ranks done so that main reed set of 5 or 6 is tuned at same pitch e.g 440Hz and second set higher or lower certain amount to get Celeste/Aeoline effect. Or are reeds tuned -+ offset from 440Hz .This I don't know and would be nice to know.

Hmm... and is it so that Oliver's Mustel has stop Salicionale 16' that uses one rank of 6 so that might give answer is that in same pitch among 2 rank or is there offset?

Musette at Treble is dedicated rank in art harmonium and I would assume it is tuned in same pitch than main rank.

In my Alexandre where Celeste uses Musette rank Musette is quite unusable with combination of 1+5, 3+5 and 4+5 as it sounds horrible at least to my ear even those notes that are in tune or close enough.

How this is done in reed organ e.g Aeoline Harp 2' at Bass activates 2 reed sets at same time and one is e.g Cornett Echo 2'. Cornett is tuned to 436.5Hz and another set is tuned 3Hz below. Overall pitch in this Hofberg was 436.5Hz. And why this Cornett was tuned to same diapason is that you can use it as alone so it would not sound to out of tune when used among other sets.

I'm interested of this tuning topic so if someone could do some measurements I would appreciate it.

Best Regards Jaakko




Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Mathieu



Masculin Nombre de messages : 1021
Age : 38
Localisation : Toulouse & sud-Aveyron
Date d'inscription : 11/03/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Tuning of the harmonium   Mar 27 Nov 2012 - 20:52

A quick answer, more later if I have time :

On art harmoniums (such as Mustel, or art Alexandre) Celestes and Eoliennes have two ranks on their own and are tuned symetrically to the general harmonium pitch. So that it can be used with "straight" ranks without this awfull effect you mention.
It is worth mentionning that some Alexandre have a straight Musette rank AND a Celeste rank to add to N° 2 or N°1 (on some 6 ranks Alexandre, the Celeste are 8' ones).

About reed organs, my Melodian (which is an Hoffberg or Hörügel, I think) has two systems. The 2' Aeolsharfe has a straight rank (Named Cornet Echo 2', as you point) and an undulating one. The Harmonia Aethera uses the Gamba in the bass and Salicional in the trebles that are also undulating ranks. And the Salicional is the undulating rank of the Vox Celestis in the trebles.

I hope this is helpfull for you !

(Traduction française à venir, promis !!)
Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Jaakko Järvelä



Masculin Nombre de messages : 79
Age : 43
Localisation : Kaustinen, Finland
Date d'inscription : 04/09/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Tuning of the harmonium   Mar 27 Nov 2012 - 21:16

Hi Mathieu

About tuning of the Celestes and Eoliennes bit more. Is the so called "beating" / Celeste effect also remaining same e.g 2 beats per second ( as in reed organs some brands) over the whole Celeste rank or is it getting more rapid towards the top end.

Both Alexandre's I have are Salon models only having 4.5 ranks. Musette rank 5 in Alexandre is also straight but tuned to +9cent from 438Hz giving 4Hz/beats difference when played with 1+5 and 2Hz/beats when played with C or 2+5 getting faster towards the end of keyboard.

Well let's hope someone is willing to do some intensive measurement or has anyone tuned art harmonium 5 & 6 ranks and could tell straight from own experience?

BR, Jaakko

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
Voir le profil de l'utilisateur
Contenu sponsorisé




MessageSujet: Re: Tuning of the harmonium   Aujourd'hui à 2:03

Revenir en haut Aller en bas
 
Tuning of the harmonium
Voir le sujet précédent Voir le sujet suivant Revenir en haut 
Page 1 sur 1
 Sujets similaires
-
» Accords standard en open tuning
» Trouver les open tuning utilise
» Duo piano & harmonium
» nashville tuning
» open tuning sur variax?

Permission de ce forum:Vous ne pouvez pas répondre aux sujets dans ce forum
Harmonium et Anches Libres :: L'Instrument :: Discussion générale-
Sauter vers: