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 Schiedmayer Scheola

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HarpeEolienne



Masculin Nombre de messages : 24
Age : 28
Date d'inscription : 16/10/2011

MessageSujet: Schiedmayer Scheola   Lun 7 Nov 2011 - 17:12

Hi all,

I'm new on this Forum and I like to write in English if it is OK.

Im from Germany and I#m very Interested to Harmoniens and the Literature.

In my private property I have 3 Fantastic Instruments.

1. A Mannborg Style 17 -> for Mr. Schmitt. in a "German" Disposition Very Happy
2. A 2manual Kotykiewicz Harmonium with Percussion, Prologement, Double Expression, Harpe Eolienne2 Bass and Baryton 32 Discant.
3 A Schiedmayer Scheola without "Scheola"

I like to get some pictures of this Instruments later.

First I need some help for my Schiedmayer




This is it.
A victim of a Organist who not like to "peddle"

It hasnt yet the two Prologement, Forte Expressive and the Expression.

At First I have a Question. Can I get some Pictures of the Prologement of Mustel???

Please help me by this project.

Thank a lot ans Sorry for my bad English Embarassed

HarpeEolienne


Dernière édition par Bastien Milanese le Lun 7 Nov 2011 - 18:13, édité 1 fois (Raison : adding [img] and [/img])
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Mathieu



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Age : 38
Localisation : Toulouse & sud-Aveyron
Date d'inscription : 11/03/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Lun 7 Nov 2011 - 17:34

What interesting instruments you have !!!

A shame you dont have the Scheola part. Is is original, or has it been thrown out, as often for Mustel's Concertals ?
And I don't get it : has the Scheola pedals been suppressed and the front panel replaced ?

(V.F. : Quel dommage que vous n'ayez pas la partie Scheola - rappel http://www.gdo.de/harmonium/schiedmayer/scheola.htm . Est-ce d'origine, ou bien a-t-elle été jetée comme souvent pour les concertals de chez Mustel ? Et je ne comprends pas bien : les pédales du Schéola ont été supprimées et le panneau de devant remplacé ???)

Here you can download the Mustel book dealing with the harmonium.
http://harmonium.forumactif.org/t6-alphonse-mustel-l-orgue-expressif-ou-harmonium-1904
On page 125 of the book (150 of the pdf file), there is a proper scheme of the prolongement device as Mustel made it.
I hope it helps !


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HarpeEolienne



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Date d'inscription : 16/10/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Lun 7 Nov 2011 - 18:30

Very Thank for this Information.

I havent the Scheola or the original case. (not complete corret that the original Wood without the wonderful Art of the 1920.)
The preowner has buy it from a Church and this church destroy the Forte Expressive, Expression and the Case in the 60s for "easier" playing confused Crying or Very sad Crying or Very sad Rolling Eyes

I've the Mustel book but nees some "real" pictures to compare with my.

That's my situation





Thank

HarpeEolienne

P.S.

Kotykiewicz:



Mannborg



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Christoph



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Lun 7 Nov 2011 - 18:50

Hello,
Where do you live? You can come to Heidelberg and look at the prolongement of my Mustel.
Christoph
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Mathieu



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Lun 7 Nov 2011 - 20:53

There is the same signature on your Scheola than on these dominators :
http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/schiedmayer-dominator.html

Do you have the system of selective prolongements ?
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Olivier Schmitt
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Date d'inscription : 08/03/2009

MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 7:15

I think this Schiemayer has the selective prolongements (little tongues upper the stops).
I will take pics of the prolongement of my Mustel (hooks under the keyboard, prismatic board on the chest).

Great pics of your Still 17 ! Wink

(sorry for my english... but my german isn't better !).


[je vous épargne une traduction de ma prose, mon anglais étant si peu littéraire...]
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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 14:08

HarpeEolienne a écrit:
3 A Schiedmayer Scheola without "Scheola"

I like to get some pictures of this Instruments later.

First I need some help for my Schiedmayer
It hasnt yet the two Prologement, Forte Expressive and the Expression.

At First I have a Question. Can I get some Pictures of the Prologement of Mustel???

Please help me by this project.

Thank a lot ans Sorry for my bad English Embarassed

HarpeEolienne


First of all: I love your parents that they named you Harpe Eolienne :-)


You might consider to contact Markus Lenter of Lenter Orgelbau.
He has restored many Schiedmayer instruments, among them a number of Dominators in all know types. (Rossini, Wagner, Strauss).
He also restored a number of Mustels....

http://www.orgelbau-lenter.de/


Frans

(my voice is like a baryton 32, out of tune)
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Harmoniumnet



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Date d'inscription : 25/09/2010

MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 14:11

Mathieu a écrit:
There is the same signature on your Scheola than on these dominators :
http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/schiedmayer-dominator.html

Do you have the system of selective prolongements ?


Herr Fritzsche ware damals Meister bauer zu Schiedmayer Pianofortefabrik ( J & P Schiedmayer). Er kam vom eine Harmonium/Piano Firma in Kirchheim u/Teck etwa 1904.


Frans
owner of www.harmoniumnet.nl
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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 14:20

Olivier Schmitt a écrit:
I think this Schiemayer has the selective prolongements (little tongues upper the stops).
I will take pics of the prolongement of my Mustel (hooks under the keyboard, prismatic board on the chest).

I was told quite some time ago that the Prolongement Forte & Prolongement Piano (doux) was created by lifting the soupape (Note Ventil) only half (doux) or full (Forte).

The "little tongues upper the stops

http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/Images/Prolongement-3%20Indications%20web.jpg

have no function regarding the Prolongements.

The 'upper tongues" in fact change the number of reeds when the relevant Jeux d'anches is drawn, see the graphic attached in the picture. Switch the 'upper tongues' of and all the bass notes will play.


Danke schön, Dankuwel, Merci.... geek

Frans
(loosing weight because I have to answer questions)....

(I lost 7 kilograms the last 2 months, soon I will be a countertenor again cherry What a Face )


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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 14:33



Here is a picture of the inside of the Dominator and the locations of the front & backside reeds.

http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/Images/Schiedmayer%20Aufteilung%20Spiele_01%20800px.jpg


First of all: See the Prolongement at the left side of the Frontside reeds.

Of course the Prolongement only act on the frontside jeux d'anches...


Frans

P.S. I presume that the Dominator & Scheola will have the same system. They must be according to the Mustel system, because Julius and Paul learned it from the Mustel guys.... ;-p

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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 14:37


Finally:


All you would like to see about Schiedmayer:

www.harmoniumnet.nl
Chapter HISTORIE
Paragraph "BOUWERS/BUILDERS
topic: SCHIEDMAYER

There are more than 20 pages on Schiedmayer and still working to make more pages....


(Should you fall asleep of all my messasges on Schiedmayer, have a look at


http://travel.webshots.com/album/581751234cuTEJA


Frans


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Olivier Schmitt
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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 16:00

Je me suis embrouillé entre les différents prolongements et les tessitures mobiles contrôlées par les languettes. Au temps pour moi, désolé Frans!
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HarpeEolienne



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Date d'inscription : 16/10/2011

MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 16:31

Hi

First: Christoph very thanks for your invitation but I live in Cuxhaven/Niedersachsen. It's a little bit to far for me Very Happy

You are all still right. Fritsche was an very well Harmoniumbuilder.

But he built in two different times different "types" The first type was more brighter sound.(I think that he dont take "euphorisated" tongues)
The second type was more dense romantic and full off.

Now to the Prologement:

Yes it's right. Schiedmayer built in the Modell Dominator ans Scheola too both Prologement.

Here is an description from Karg-Elert (kunst des registrieren-in german sorry Embarassed )

https://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/17/01/28/54/prolog10.jpg
https://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/17/01/28/54/prolog11.jpg


Thank HarpeEolienne (bourgeois tongue Peer)


Dernière édition par HarpeEolienne le Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 17:29, édité 1 fois
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HarpeEolienne



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 8 Nov 2011 - 16:43

A resentful

the little switches are very clever system.

https://i41.servimg.com/u/f41/17/01/28/54/foto10.jpg

They open the channel on the example C-H side a little bit. That sounded only this side.

The Scheola use that for the Violon 16 in bass. This rank exist only from C-H.

Peer

Olivier. Very thank for your nice words about my Style 17

I invest many time to restore this huge instrument
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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mer 9 Nov 2011 - 16:06

HarpeEolienne a écrit:
Hi all, 3 A Schiedmayer Scheola without "Scheola"


Today I checked the Dieterlen dissertation (the one of 1699 pages).

In tome III I found a Brevet (patent) by St. Mustel Cie, 1906, regarding the 'scheola mechanism' on a Mustel Concertal avec Celesta.
It is patent 373.151 dated 1906.

I have the first page of the official brevet, and I added the drawings from the Dieterlen dissertation.
Mind you, the drawings in the dissertation are of a quality that could cause you to start your Citroën C6,
and drive at speed 216 kmh hoping that...
and only after an hour or so you know you have to see your psychiatrist.....

Don't worry, go to this page:

http://www.harmoniumnet.nl/history-8-mustel.html

And you can download the 2 pages about the 'scheola part'


jocolor
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HarpeEolienne



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Jeu 10 Nov 2011 - 16:50

Thank you Frans,

Schiedmayer built many different types with scheola (names Scheaola or Palästrina). Here is a picture of a Scheola with 2 manuals and Celesta.

http://www.maesto.com/angebotbilder2.html

I've look at my Kotykiewicz. The instrument have a Prologement too but with another system.
That have that system that a halfrounded strip?(named Leiste Question ) who going into the hook.

The Taloniere of the kidney is not triggered with foot lever but with a button next to the Doppelexpression.

If its possible I need a picture of the foot lever my Mustel or other.

I hope you understand my very bad english Neutral Razz Embarassed Embarassed

Peer
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Harmoniumnet



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Jeu 10 Nov 2011 - 19:40

HarpeEolienne a écrit:
Thank you Frans, Peer


Vielleicht war es einfacher in Deutsch zu schreiben. Es gibt genug Leute zum übersetzen von wichtige Fragen.

study
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HarpeEolienne



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Jeu 1 Déc 2011 - 8:44

Ok thanks for the explanation

My next question is that I dont know how the Expression works at the Art.

Can everybody exlain me (with pictures please Smile ) how that look like????


Very Thank

(To Frans in manchen Fällen wenn die erklärungsnot ganz groß ist schreibe ich in Deutsch Danke)
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HarpeEolienne



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MessageSujet: Scheola update   Ven 11 Mai 2012 - 18:05

Good evening all,

after an eternity, I could now finally have a little work on my Scheola and had passed on I can recreate some buttons and labels tab.

The result can be found here very



to this





currently I'm working very intensely on bellows. I noticed that the blower was in the "electrification" not only reduced but also mutilated.

Corners have been cut out at the sides and the support plate has been reduced.

A difficult task.

How it's actually been the practice in Mustel? was there a standard or if the bellows (for example, come up with from The Salicional 16) with the larger time?

Thank you very much

peer



(not "better English _google translator Embarassed )
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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mar 31 Juil 2012 - 19:12

Hello Peer,

do you still own parts of the scheola mechanics? The specific scheola buttons don't seem to be on your instrument any longer.
I was wondering how this system must have worked. Do you own other pictures of your instrument. Would be nice if you could send
me some,

thanks,
Nils
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HarpeEolienne



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Mer 1 Aoû 2012 - 17:35

Hi Nils,

This is a bit complicated. In my instrument was as good as anything that belongs to a Scheola (and to a real art harmonium!) In the 60 years away. In addition, the "Schöpfbälge" were removed to make room for an engine. This engagement has not only the originality, but also the art harmonium brought to a very bad level. I'm trying to help a lot of experts, at least make the instrument again full-fledged art harmonium.


(The valve with a hole for a hanger wire)


By the way! The Scheola is (according to Karg-Elert) from the disposition produces the most advanced. Karg-Elert writes in his "Kunst des Registrierens" an art that requires harmonium particularly in the bass range is neither a fully developed Aeolian Harp (Unda Maris) is still a full 16 feet. Schiedmayer has taken to heart and that this instrument (probably in others as well?), The undated c and Maris until it built the 16 foot (Violon) only by C-c.

Best peer
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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Ven 3 Aoû 2012 - 22:41

Now I understand why the registers are scrambled on the right side of your instrument, the most favored combinations are integrated in this system.
common examples of Karg-Elert and Paul Smidt: 148, 56, 569, 37

as a result:

1p 8 4 1 5 6 9 2 7 3

the 1p is the first register because it only activates the percussion, not the 1!

Your instrument is the first Schiedmayer I have seen with the undamaris but without a celesta which is very strange..
Normally your instrument should have had the prolongements as well. Do you think it's possible that both were removed?
Maybe it was a special order, also possible.. you asked for the measurements of the pedals: 20,5 cm x 26,5 cm

All the best,
Nils

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N871



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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Sam 4 Aoû 2012 - 22:24

Votre instrument??? Il manque aussi les prolongements, les percussions et l'expression.



2 examples "Scheola sans celesta", ils ont 3 pedales!! peut-être pour des autres prolongements..



merci a Frans de l'harmoniumnet.nl pour les images.
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MessageSujet: Re: Schiedmayer Scheola   Aujourd'hui à 18:27

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